tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13958708.post4863426286641492122..comments2024-03-28T00:08:14.247-07:00Comments on Foster's Theological Reflections: Slavery in the First Century CEEdgar Fosterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00280475259670777653noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13958708.post-9782928009686970722016-04-09T16:53:51.396-07:002016-04-09T16:53:51.396-07:00They all look like helpful links. I have not studi...They all look like helpful links. I have not studied Graeco-Roman slavery in a long time, but these might spur me toward the subject again. I'll put them in my slavery folder. Thanks.Edgar Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00280475259670777653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13958708.post-68594139130408244162016-04-09T09:16:58.869-07:002016-04-09T09:16:58.869-07:00https://www.princeton.edu/~pswpc/pdfs/scheidel/110...https://www.princeton.edu/~pswpc/pdfs/scheidel/110504.pdf<br /><br />https://www.academia.edu/4063270/_Slavery_and_the_Roman_Family_<br /><br />https://www.academia.edu/12878971/Less_beloved_Roman_archaeology_slavery_and_the_failure_to_compare<br /><br />This last link also makes some interesting comments about our understanding of terms like "Hellenisation".<br />Duncanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14509064648619505383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13958708.post-51769348842121849022016-04-09T08:36:17.217-07:002016-04-09T08:36:17.217-07:00Just thought it interesting looking at one of your...Just thought it interesting looking at one of your April 2016 posts that the English designation of "lord" comes from a Germanic term which is referring to the one who supplies bread. I have a feeling that this concept goes back much further to the early stages of agriculture when it superceded horticulture as the method of feeding the majority of the civis.Duncanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14509064648619505383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13958708.post-60191773441873475682016-04-09T08:28:21.782-07:002016-04-09T08:28:21.782-07:00https://www.princeton.edu/~pswpc/pdfs/scheidel/050...https://www.princeton.edu/~pswpc/pdfs/scheidel/050704.pdf<br /><br />Some useful sources in Bibliographical note on pg 18.Duncanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14509064648619505383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13958708.post-23182923361926639562015-03-20T17:43:05.369-07:002015-03-20T17:43:05.369-07:00Good point.
What was Paul supposed to say? "...Good point.<br /><br />What was Paul supposed to say? "Slaves, do not be subject to your masters, try your best to irritate them, and run away as quickly as possible?"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13958708.post-77995358044088050732015-03-04T08:51:41.447-08:002015-03-04T08:51:41.447-08:00I don't need a master to feed me scraps, give ...I don't need a master to feed me scraps, give me a dirt floor to sleep on, and raggedy clothes that are fit only for field work. <br /><br />I'm not rich, but my employment allows me to live in a house, drive a car, have my own clothes and bed, and I can purchase my own food. My work schedule is approximately 22-25 hours per week; not 12 hours, 5-6 days per week. :)Edgar Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00280475259670777653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13958708.post-35739756528698591642015-03-04T08:46:27.875-08:002015-03-04T08:46:27.875-08:00Dear Bernd,
While I understand what you're sa...Dear Bernd,<br /><br />While I understand what you're saying and agree to some extent, I take what you express above to be hyperbolic. <br /><br />I don't know many people in the western world, who literally work themselves to an early death like the ancient slaves (or slaves in America) did. Yes, one could draw some parallels between ancient/American slavery and today. But I'll take my life over what Frederick Douglass or ancient Philemon went through any day. :)<br /><br />"I'm working myself to death" has become a metaphor for most of us. Even when I worded in the furniture factory, my bosses did not stand there with a whip, insults, and make me work until I drop. Let's not excuse the behavior of those ancient masters whop abused their legal property. Furthermore, how would you like to be someone's legal property--body and soul?Edgar Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00280475259670777653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13958708.post-66356681624495265272015-03-04T06:00:33.123-08:002015-03-04T06:00:33.123-08:00Edgar,
you said: "someone who is worked to ...Edgar, <br /><br />you said: "someone who is worked to death rather than a person who works himself/herself to death of his/her own volotion. That's a big difference. Abusive masters existed in the first century--they were often cruel to their legal property and were condescending." <br /><br />Well, as far as I understand in both cases the result was death. And to be honest, I find it much more disturbing, when people work themselves to death on their own volition, as it is common use in neo-liberal capitalistic society. Today's slaves only think, that they are free, while they are in no better condition, than slaves in the first century. At least owners of slaves cared for their "capital" and fed them. Today quite a number of jobs doesn't feed the labourers.<br /><br />So, I apply for the return of slavery. :)<br /><br />BerndAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13958708.post-88777856104531883232015-02-11T15:01:01.850-08:002015-02-11T15:01:01.850-08:00Dunca,
what I had in mind--so did Giles--is someo...Dunca,<br /><br />what I had in mind--so did Giles--is someone who is worked to death rather than a person who works himself/herself to death of his/her own volotion. That's a big difference. Abusive masters existed in the first century--they were often cruel to their legal property and were condescending.Edgar Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00280475259670777653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13958708.post-65528985220042467032015-02-10T02:22:22.985-08:002015-02-10T02:22:22.985-08:00Many were worked to death but we would not define ...Many were worked to death but we would not define them as slaves who are owned but as soon as you lose the ability to provide for your family from the direct environment around you (resources from the land) you become in effect a slave. Agriculture, it's control and taxation has always been the primary source for this societal structure. <br /><br />2 Samuel 11:1 And it came about at the return of the year, at the time that kings sally forth,...<br /><br />This simple phrase has huge implications.Duncanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14509064648619505383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13958708.post-27831812799011515352015-02-09T14:51:09.863-08:002015-02-09T14:51:09.863-08:00From Kevin Giles' work on the Trinity and Subo...From Kevin Giles' work on the Trinity and Subordinationism:<br /><br />First, Giles observes that there are a number of special characteristics that define slavery: (1) Slaves are considered to be the property of other humans; (2) They are volitionally subjugated (ex toto)<br />to their masters; (3) A slave is normally cocerced into performing manual labor for his/her master; (4) A slave is the "commodity" of another human being.<br /><br />While it has commonly been assumed or thought that<br />Roman slavery was not as bad or cruel as "black slavery" from the 15th to the 19th century, Giles<br />provides ample reasons to think that this notion of ancient slavery is idealistic since slaves in the Roman Empire were also forced to work under the threat of violence to their person, they were exploited sexually, and were sometimes forced to work until they dropped.<br />Their treatment in large part was contingent on the demeanor<br />of those who owned them (p. 219). Regardless of the owner's personal disposition, though, ancient slavery was an "awful" institution. The RAISON D'^ETRE of the ancient master was to break his slave and he thought<br />that if violence was needed to "tame" a slave, so be<br />it.<br /><br />As late as 362 CE, Giles writes, the Council of Gangrae leveled an anathema against "anyone [who]<br />under the pretense of godliness should teach a slave<br />to despise his master, or withdraw himself from his<br />master" (Giles, p. 220).<br /><br />Giles and other historians supply plenty of evidence that masters could be harsh in the first century. <br />Edgar Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00280475259670777653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13958708.post-16834915029072006242015-02-09T08:05:34.395-08:002015-02-09T08:05:34.395-08:00Duncan,
thanks for the quote. I used to think tha...Duncan,<br /><br />thanks for the quote. I used to think that way about Graeco-Roman slavery, but not any longer. I'm away from my sources now, but Kevin Giles provides evidence that shows the other side of the coin. Roman masters could be threatening and even had the power of life/death in their hands. They often belittled their slaves, and treated them cruelly. There's a good reason why most people today disapprove of slavery. It seems immoral (or not completely right) for one person to be another's property (in this specific way).Edgar Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00280475259670777653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13958708.post-83337462251640814392015-02-09T06:02:18.771-08:002015-02-09T06:02:18.771-08:00"2. SLAVERY AND MANUMISSION
Everyone learne..."2. SLAVERY AND MANUMISSION <br /><br />Everyone learned to speak and think in Latin, even the slaves, <br />who in the second century raised their standard of living to the <br />level of the ingenui. Legislation had grown more and more humane <br />and had progressively lightened their chains and favoured their <br />emancipation. The practical good sense of the Romans, no less <br />than the fundamental humanity instinctive in their peasant hearts, <br />had always kept them from showing cruelty toward the servi. <br />They had always treated their slaves with consideration, as Cato <br />had treated his plough oxen; however far back we go in history <br />we find the Romans spurring their slaves to effort by offering <br />them pay and bonuses which accumulated to form a nest egg that <br />as a rule served ultimately to buy their freedom. With few ex- <br />ceptions, slavery in Rome was neither eternal nor, while it lasted, <br />intolerable; but never had it been lighter or easier to escape from <br />than under the Antonines* "<br /><br />https://archive.org/stream/dailylifeinancie035465mbp/dailylifeinancie035465mbp_djvu.txtDuncanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14509064648619505383noreply@blogger.com