tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13958708.post7754372789988449611..comments2024-03-28T00:08:14.247-07:00Comments on Foster's Theological Reflections: The Epistle to Diognetus 4.1-5 and De-JudaizationEdgar Fosterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00280475259670777653noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13958708.post-63124204369348237372016-11-03T13:46:15.765-07:002016-11-03T13:46:15.765-07:00I don't necessarily disagree with your observa...I don't necessarily disagree with your observation about Paul's filter, but I just don't limit his critique to the oral tradition. I've stated this point before, but there's evidence that special days were observed in other places besides the land. Edgar Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00280475259670777653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13958708.post-65839778447207203752016-11-03T09:51:25.085-07:002016-11-03T09:51:25.085-07:00ABP of 4:10 [days You closely watch], and months, ...ABP of 4:10 [days You closely watch], and months, and times, and years.<br /><br />Days you closely watch - in relation to the days themselves or the dates upon which they are remembered?<br /><br />http://www.internationalstandardbible.com/R/rudiments.html<br /><br />"In the Land" the times would be significant in its original agricultural setting not forgetting that such cycles are relevant to all agricultural setting (see baal cycle).Duncanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14509064648619505383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13958708.post-36975979844898209732016-11-03T09:14:59.672-07:002016-11-03T09:14:59.672-07:00I'm not endorsing the first link, but the writ...I'm not endorsing the first link, but the writer believes oral law preceded the Mishnah. In fact, he thinks God gave the oral law to Moses on Mt. Sinai.<br /><br />He might have known about the DSS or similar utterances: we don't know much about this writer. The old NWT used to add "scrupulously." The days, months, seasons, and years are normally understood to be Jewish religious days. <br /><br />"You scrupulously observe days and months, special seasons, and years" (Weymouth NT).<br /><br />From Ellicott: As to the bearing of this passage [Gal. 4:10] on the general question of the observance of seasons, it is to be noticed that the reference is here to the adoption by the Galatians of the Jewish seasons as a mark of the extent to which they were prepared to take on themselves the burden of the Mosaic law. It does not necessarily follow that the observance of Christian seasons is condemned. At the same time, it is quite clear that St. Paul places all such matters under the head of “elements” or “rudiments.” Edgar Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00280475259670777653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13958708.post-61488110629713708582016-11-03T09:04:05.001-07:002016-11-03T09:04:05.001-07:00But isn't this the filter through which Paul s...But isn't this the filter through which Paul speak as a pharisee who lays down his tradition? Isn't his key the tradition and sayings of Jesus who demolishes the oral tradition and demonstrates the true application of Torah.<br /><br />https://gotquestions.org/law-of-Christ.html<br /><br />Isn't the law of the christ his complete breakdown of the meaning and relevance of torah?Duncanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14509064648619505383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13958708.post-72934418127223114812016-11-03T09:01:10.928-07:002016-11-03T09:01:10.928-07:00Perhaps the author here when referring to Sabbaths...Perhaps the author here when referring to Sabbaths and new moons would know of the petty arguments as found in the DSS as to the kosher calendar and what constituted it.<br /><br />When the harvest festival should be? - Exodus 34:22.<br /><br />Galatians 4 is qualified:-<br /><br />You are observing religious days and months and seasons and years.Duncanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14509064648619505383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13958708.post-74378583843293813432016-11-03T08:59:09.816-07:002016-11-03T08:59:09.816-07:00From the first link:-
"In the 3rd century CE...From the first link:-<br /><br />"In the 3rd century CE, Rabbenu Hakadosh realized that because of growing hardships and persecutions the Jews might not be able to retain by memory all these traditional laws, so he decided to record them."<br /><br />This has blatant disregard of the evidences of the DSS - he may have compiled but he certainly was no the first to write down.Duncanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14509064648619505383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13958708.post-56461873892514627532016-11-03T08:50:09.518-07:002016-11-03T08:50:09.518-07:00Links on oral torah. Maybe you've read some of...Links on oral torah. Maybe you've read some of these:<br /><br />http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2056/jewish/The-Oral-Law.htm<br /><br />http://www.elijahnet.net/The%20Historical%20DevelopmAA9.html<br /><br />http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/talmud_&_mishna.htmlEdgar Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00280475259670777653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13958708.post-86039652505348367802016-11-03T08:45:37.004-07:002016-11-03T08:45:37.004-07:00So-called De-Judaization is common in the church f...So-called De-Judaization is common in the church fathers, as Jaroslav Pelikan documented in the 1st volume of his work "The Christian Tradition." I think the writer of Epistle to Diognetus was primarily basing his critiques on what Scripture reports about the Mosaic Law and possibly what he observed. His comments appear to deal more with ritual, not with fine distinctions of defining torah. <br /><br />I should have typed "written and oral law, or oral tradition." The NT certainly indicates that at least some first century Jews recognized a written and oral component of torah. Otherwise, the controversies between Christ and the Pharisees are not fully intelligible. <br /><br />The primary reason I posted the words of the Epistle was to illustrate how the early church tended to view Judaism and its rituals.Edgar Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00280475259670777653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13958708.post-25539923686636181452016-11-03T05:35:09.685-07:002016-11-03T05:35:09.685-07:00I am referring to the attention to detail or lack ...I am referring to the attention to detail or lack thereof of this particular author. That other authors make such statements is not my point or do other authors make equivalent statements as to the one you have quoted here?<br /><br />"there's reams of evidence that ancients made a distinction between written and oral law."? as I already referenced - DSS scholarship does not indicate a division. The divisions of law, prophets & writings do not cover this issue as the Halakha treated as one Torah is at issue.Duncanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14509064648619505383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13958708.post-82674488247171958462016-11-03T05:26:53.254-07:002016-11-03T05:26:53.254-07:00Sorry, but I find the first paragraph confusing si...Sorry, but I find the first paragraph confusing since that's not why I made this blog entry, but placing that issue aside, there's reams of evidence that ancients made a distinction between written and oral law. However, I don't feel that's the main point here.<br /><br />I think the writer refers to the scrupulous manner of observing rituals. See Gal. 4:8-11, especially in the old NWT.<br /><br />I'm not sure which term he's using for superstition, because I have not consulted the Greek of this passage yet. However, it is available online. On the last point, early writers of the church did mention the blood prohibition; there was even a church council that mentions the restriction.Edgar Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00280475259670777653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13958708.post-42608501305998120712016-11-03T05:13:57.434-07:002016-11-03T05:13:57.434-07:00This does nothing to prove that a separation of un...This does nothing to prove that a separation of understanding existed between the written law and the oral law. What exactly is the writer calling "scrupulosity" - the foods eaten or the rituals surrounding them? How is he using the term underlying "superstition" & which term?<br /><br /><br />"But, inhabiting Greek as well as barbarian cities, according as the lot of each of them has determined, and following the customs of the natives in respect to clothing, food, and the rest of their ordinary conduct, they display to us their wonderful and confessedly striking method of life. They dwell in their own countries, but simply as sojourners."<br /><br />http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/diognetus-roberts.html<br /><br />For the christian, no mention of food preparation as to blood either which was common in the roman empire.<br /><br />https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=OTxvBQAAQBAJ&pg=PT42&lpg=PT42&dq=roman+blood+puddings&source=bl&ots=-CFEg__S2Z&sig=Gvt51KosyAZelIeC7lJXGTwfEIU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj-geywx4zQAhXrDcAKHe8pBLEQ6AEIOTAF#v=onepage&q=roman%20blood%20puddings&f=false<br /><br />There is much ambiguity.Duncanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14509064648619505383noreply@blogger.com