Greek: τοὺς δὲ ἑτεροκλινεῖς ὑπάρχοντας εἰς κόλασιν καὶ αἰκισμὸν τίθησιν
The version of Lightfoot that I'm using translates this passage: "but appointeth unto punishment and torment them which swerve aside."
He's translating:
δὲ = "but"
τοὺς = "them"
τίθησιν = "appointeth"
εἰς κόλασιν καὶ αἰκισμὸν = "unto punishment and torment"
ἑτεροκλινεῖς ὑπάρχοντας = "which swerve aside"
I would probably not change much about Lightfoot's rendering. Maybe "but set [placed, assigned] to punishment [pruning, mutilation, cutting-off] and harm them which are inclined to other loyalties."
1. κόλασιν can denote "punishment" (BDAG, Robertson's WP). See http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/robertsons-word-pictures/matthew/matthew-25-46.html as an example. While I do not agree with Robertson's overall explanation for Mt 25:46, I believe that the Greek word may denote "punishment" which is not the same as the verb "punishing." See 1 John 4:18. BDAG includes the definition "retribution" as well.
2. BDAG points out that when αἰκισμὸν is used with κόλασιν (or their related lexical forms) that αἰκισμὸν evidently means "punishment." It cites 1 Cl 11:1. So what we appear to have in this passage is a redundancy or pleonasm. The words essentially communicate the same idea.
3. BDAG also cites 1 Cl 11:1 for the entry ἑτεροκλινεῖς. The word may convey notions of "leaning to one side" or "inclined to, having a propensity for" but in 1 Cl 11:1 probably means "having other allegiance" since it's used in the context of rebellious or apostate peoples.
By the way, ὑπάρχοντας is a present active participle ("being") in the accusative form.
Hope this helps,
Edgar
Thank you Edgar for considering my question.
ReplyDeleteHere's what I could find by way of translations:
GREEK TEXT: “...τοὺς δὲ ἑτεροκλινεῖς ὑπάρχοντας εἰς κόλασιν καὶ αἰκισμὸν τίθησιν...”
LIGHTFOOT: “...but appointeth unto punishment and torment them which swerve aside...”
MOODY-C: “...but deliver to punishment and torment those who turn away from him...”
HOOLE: “...but appointeth to punishment and torment them that turn in another way...”
ERHMAN: “...but hands over to punishment and torment those who turn away...”
EDGECOME: “...but those inclined toward possessions are given over to punishment and torments...”
R&D: “...but gives up those who depart from Him to punishment and torture...”
LAKE: “...but delivers to punishment and torture those who turn aside to others...”
SLOPP: “...but that he delivers to punishment and torture those who turn away...”
KLYEIST: “...but those of a refractory disposition He gives over to chastisement and torture...”
TEMP-CHEV: “...but will bring to punishment and correction those who decline from his ways...”
ANOM-TRANS: “...He visits with punishment and pain such as turn aside...”
BURTON: “...but will bring the disobedient to punishment and correction...”
GREEK TEXT: “...τοὺς δὲ ἑτεροκλινεῖς ὑπάρχοντας εἰς κόλασιν καὶ αἰκισμὸν τίθησιν...”
ReplyDeleteMATT13-GK(A): “...but those [persons who] are of a mind inclining to dissent, these may well [end up] being cut off and delivered into punishment...”
MATT13-GK(B): “...but those ones who now have a propensity to deviate into contrary [oppinions], they could [end up] being delivered to punishment and to be cutt off...”
Gk., ( τίθησιν ) is in the subjunctive, third person. So I have rendered in the sense of a possiblility in the future by GK(B) “...they ( could ) [end up]...” and GK(A) “...these may well [end up]...”
In GK(A) I have rendered Gk., ( ὑπάρχοντας ) as “...are...” and GK(B) by the slightly obscure “...now have...”
I know I have mixed up the word order slightly in GK(B), and have paraphrased a little, and could be criticised for it, (by Christendom), but I am mainly interested trying to achieve sense in the translation.
What are your thoughts?
MORIN LATIN TEXT: “...qui autem dubii sunt, in poenas et tormenta traduntur...”
ReplyDeleteMATT13-ML(A): “...these, however, who are of dubious [character], are being handed over into in retribution and torment...”
MATT13-ML(B): “...those, on the other hand, who are of wavering opinions, these are being delivered into torment as [divine] indemnification...”
Indemnification in the sense of protecting against this sort of scenrio in the future by warning examples of punishment, just as the immediate context speaks of.
RUFINUS LATIN TEXT: “...eos vero qui in contraria declinant, punitione ac supplicio afficit...”
MATT13-RL(A): “...these ones, certainly, who are deviating into contrary [opinions], are to receive punishment even torment...”
MATT13-RL(B): “...truly these who are turning away into contrary [opinions], are to receive punishment and even execution...”
MATT13-RL(C): “...these ones, certainly, who are deviating into contrary [opinions], are to receive punishment even the death penalty...”
Gk., ( κόλασιν ) = MORIN-Ltn., ( poenas )
ReplyDeleteGk., ( αἰκισμὸν ) = MORIN-Ltn., ( tormenta )
Ltn., ( poenas ) = poena , ae, f. Gr. ποινή, ἄποινα, quitmoney, fine; Lat. pūnio, poenitet, noun (f., 1st declension) feminine accusative plural
1. indemnification, compensation, recompense, retribution, satisfaction, expiation, punishment, penalty, price, a fine
2. person., the goddess of punishment, Vengeance
3. [plural] avenging Furies
http://latinlexicon.org/word_study_tool.php
Ltn., ( tormenta ) = tormentum, tormentī TARC- noun (n., 2nd declension) neuter nominative plural
1. an engine for hurling
2. a twisted cord, sling
3. a missile, shot
4. an instrument of torture, rack
5. [figuratively] torture, anguish, pain, torment
http://latinlexicon.org/word_study_tool.php
Gk., ( κόλασιν ) = RUFINUS-Ltn., ( punitione )
Gk., ( αἰκισμὸν ) = RUFINUS-Ltn., ( supplicio )
Ltn., ( punitione ) = noun sg fem abl “...a punishment...”
Ltn., ( supplicio ) = supplicium, suppliciī (subplicium, subpliciī) supplex noun (n., 2nd declension) neuter dative singular
1. a kneeling, bowing down, humble entreaty, petition, supplication
2. an humiliation, public prayer, supplication, act of worship
3. (Because criminals were beheaded kneeling), the punishment of death, death-penalty, execution, slaughter
4. punishment, penalty, torture, torment, pain, distress, suffering
http://latinlexicon.org/word_study_tool.php
Ltn., ( supplicio )
supplĭcĭum (subpl- ), ii, n. supplex; prop. a kneeling down, either as a suppliant or to receive punishment. […] II. To receive punishment; hence, punishment, penalty, torture, torment, pain, distress, suffering (class. and freq.; usu. of the penalty of death; syn. poena).
A Latin Dictionary. Founded on Andrews' edition of Freund's Latin dictionary. revised, enlarged, and in great part rewritten by. Charlton T. Lewis, Ph.D. and. Charles Short, LL.D. Oxford. Clarendon Press. 1879.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3Dsupplicium
The Morin Latin text does have “...torment...” as the sense.
ReplyDeleteGk., ( κόλασιν ) = MORIN-Ltn., ( poenas )
Gk., ( αἰκισμὸν ) = MORIN-Ltn., ( tormenta )
Rufinus in his Latin from his time, probably meant “...torment...” too. But this is open to interpretation.
Gk., ( κόλασιν ) = RUFINUS-Ltn., ( punitione )
Gk., ( αἰκισμὸν ) = RUFINUS-Ltn., ( supplicio )
I think this one phrase Gk., ( αἰκισμὸν ) or Ltn., ( tormenta ) on it's own cannot be taken as meaning “...eternal conscious torture in an ( after )-life...” So whether Clement teaches of the immortality of the soul would have to be examined as well.
Clement use of Gk., ( κόλασιν ) and Gk., ( αἰκισμὸν ) must also be read in the context of the scriptures.
Such as Revelation 20:14-15(NWT): “...This means [Gk., ( ὁ θάνατος ὁ δεύτερος )] ( the second death ) the lake of fire...”
And 2nd Thessalonians 1:9:
English Standard Version (©2001)
“...They will suffer the punishment of [Gk., ( ὄλεθρον αἰώνιον )] eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might...”
International Standard Version (©2008)
“...Such people will suffer the punishment of [Gk., ( ὄλεθρον αἰώνιον )] eternal destruction by being separated from the Lord's presence and from his glorious power...”
Philippians 3:19(NIV): “...Their destiny is destruction...” or (ESV): “... Their end is destruction...”
And 1st Thessalonians 5:3 “...sudden [Gk., ( ὄλεθρος )] destruction...”
Those are my thoughts anyway.
Mt13,
ReplyDeleteI'll try to give some feedback in a couple of days. It's been hectic with the Memorial week.
Amen to that Brother.
ReplyDeleteMt13:
ReplyDeleteOne question I have about the translation. Most of your rendering looks fine, but I wonder about τίθησιν. Is it subjunctive? I ask because of the endings, but I also reviewed the paradigm for TIQHMI and I believe the verb is indicative. As you probably also know, ὑπάρχοντας is a participle being employed as a substantive.
The ancient views on eschatology were developing. Clement might have believed in eternal torment, but like you said, we would need more than this one passage to make that determination.
ReplyDelete