In The Son of God, Martin Hengel notes (based on 1 Cor. 8:6) that "the Father is the primal ground and goal of creation, whereas Christ is the mediator" (13).
Next, Hengel discusses the Alexandrian philosopher Philo; according to Philo, the Platonic realm of transcendent Forms (Ideas) is God's 'eldest and firstborn son' and is synonymous with God's LOGOS (divine reason immanent in the cosmos). To Philo, the LOGOS is the "mediator between the eternal Godhead and the created, visible world." At the same time, the Logos is also God's "image" (EIKWN).
Philo is never quite clear about what he perceives the LOGOS to be. In varying delineations, he refers to the LOGOS as the sinless mediator, the spiritual primal man, the spokesman, the archangel, and the second god (deuteros theos). This deuteros theos is neither created nor uncreated, yet Philo does not equate the EIKWN of God with God himself (52). This claim is proved by referencing Somn. I, 157, 228-230.
In this portion of his famous work, Philo calls the EIKWN THEOU, both kurios and archangel. This point is significant because it is here that he distinguishes the LOGOS from the Father who brings forth the LOGOS. The Father is ho theos, but the LOGOS can only be considered theos (without the article). This datum substantiates the point that Philo viewed this agent as mediator of creation and a secondary god, possibly inferior to the Father of Israel (Isa. 64:8).
This philosophical detour alerts us to the fact that EIKWN when used by Philo does not mean that a thing is to be equated fully with its prototype. The sun's reflection in the water is not the same as the actual sun: it does not possess the same nature (essence or quidditas) that the sun does. Similarly, Jesus as the EIKWN of God, does not possess the substance of the Father, but is homoiousios with him. One day anointed Christians will enjoy this same privilege, to a lesser degree of course, when they experience glorified life in the EIKWN of the Son--being made like unto his image and that of his Father's.
Edgar,
ReplyDeleteSee:-
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=RILAjuKkIH8C&pg=PA372&lpg=PA372&dq=philo+logos+vak&source=bl&ots=MPl1M4xHNK&sig=bZQdlm8ttfLKnbiP_gO4BJ2BFjY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=7KWSVN2bIcmO7AbujoHgDg&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=philo%20logos%20vak&f=false
Did Clement of Alexandria admit that "we the Greeks have stolen from the Barbarians their philosophy."?
ReplyDeleteI have seen it quoted, but is this correct?
I cannot comment on anything in this link as I am unable to confirm or deny its references, but thought you might find it interesting.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/Proceedings_1910_1000035231/37
Pg38,39.
Duncan,
ReplyDeletethe first link which you provided in the thread is likely the most promising thing I've seen thus far which tries to make a conceptual link between Greek LOGOS and Sanskrit/Hindu VAK.
I still insist that more evidence would be needed to establish a solid connection. Secondly, cultures understand the divine "Word" in their own way. That some divinity uttered his/her Word is a familiar enough concept in world religion/mythology. But the understanding of that Word verges from there. See (for instance) how the ancient Egyptians understood the Word. I think Boman touches on this point in his study.
I will not discount the Clement quote straightway, but it sounds like an odd thing for Clement to say, and no reference is provided for the saying. Historically, it certainly departs from mainstream scholarship, which locates the origin of philosophy with the Greeks. However, there have been some who posited an African origin for philosophia.
ReplyDeleteEdgar,
ReplyDeleteApparently the clement quote comes from a work by Alain Danielou. I will try to find it.
It may just be one of those viral web quotes.
Edgar,
ReplyDeleteFound the book:-
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Kwnv3I6qIosC&pg=PA91&lpg=PA91&dq=Alain+Danielou+clement+of+alexandria&source=bl&ots=LqvxGynJFd&sig=slD5HO0XsdpCwL7Yq8MSwpOI9P4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=M0yTVJXiOcO0Uez5gLAL&ved=0CCsQ6AEwBQ
Pg 91 & 92 but no direct reference to the quotes location.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/ecf/002/0020308.htm
ReplyDeleteClement stromata book 5.
ReplyDeleteCHAPTER XIV -- GREEK PLAGIARISM FROM THE HEBREWS.
Let us add in completion what follows, and exhibit now with greater clearness the plagiarism of the Greeks from the Barbarian philosophy.
Duncan,
ReplyDeletethanks for locating this passage from Clement. I do remember reading this work by him, although there are problems with his account. Maybe he also says that the Greeks "stole" philosophy from the barbarians although he does not seem to go that far in the chapter you shared. But some of his claims might not be sustained in the light of historical analysis. For instance when Clement writes:
"Of all these [barbarians], by far the oldest is the Jewish race; and that their philosophy committed to writing has the precedence of philosophy among the Greeks, the Pythagorean Philo shows at large; and, besides him, Aristobulus the Peripatetic, and several others, not to waste time, in going over them by name."
Later in that same work (Stromata V.14), Clement does accuse the Greeks of copying the barbarians; however, he primarily has the Hebrews in mind. Philo makes similar claims.
ReplyDeleteRegards,
Edgar
Duncan,
ReplyDeleteyou might have proceeded on to Clement's account of the Indian gymnosophists whom Alexander the Gret reportedly encountered. The pre-Nicene Clement is not the only ancient writer to hand down that account. But it would lend weight to the notion that Indian thought/custom/speech possibly influenced Greek thought/ways.
Edgar,
ReplyDeleteI tend to favour passing remarks over detailed myths. I have my suspicions of accounts like this, ones like Josephus tail about Alexander and the story of the 72 rabbis at alexandria.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=barbarian
The term used may have deeper implications if this account was written in Greek even if it is referencing Hebrews as the elephantine papyri demonstrate.
So the question is - the influence of which Jews?
https://www.academia.edu/1515024/Alexanders_dialogue_with_Indian_philosophers_riddle_in_Indian_and_Greek_tradition
ReplyDelete