Genesis 32:30-Jacob wrestles with an angel, who is also identified as Elohim by the prophet Hosea (12:3).
Exodus 33:19, 20-Moses is told that no one can see the face of YHWH (Jehovah) and live.
Numbers 12:8-"Mouth unto mouth I speak with him, and by an appearance, and not in riddles; and the form of Jehovah he beholdeth attentively; and wherefore have ye not been afraid to speak against My servant -- against Moses?'" (YLT)
"With him I speak mouth to mouth, clearly, and not in riddles, and he beholds the form of the LORD. Why then were you not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?” (ESV)
NIV says, "With him I speak face to face . . ."
Deuteronomy 5:4-"Jehovah spake with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire" (ASV)
Deuteronomy 34:10-"And there hath not arisen a prophet any more in Israel like Moses, whom Jehovah hath known face unto face" (YLT)
1 Corinthians 13:12-"For now we see in a mirror indirectly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know fully, just as I have been fully known" (NET).
Compare 3 John 14.
See 2 Cor. 3:18. Also with 2 Cor. 4:6, "the light of the knowledge of the glory of God" (ESV) is manifested ἐν προσώπῳ Χριστοῦ.
Revelation 22:3-4-"And there will no longer be any curse, and the throne of God and the Lamb will be in the city. His servants will worship him, and they will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads" (NET Bible).
Hosea 12:3 is qualified by 12:4 and should not be separated.
ReplyDelete"face to face" is an idiom that is not easy to define, as the out of the midst of the fire demonstrates. What it literally coming out of the fire, a face or a voice? There seems to be things going on in the accounts that are of explained.
ReplyDeleteOn Hosea 12:3, 4--no disagreement there. I believe that Jacob wrestled with an angel, a representative of YHWH. Hosea supplies information that we don't find in Genesis. The Hebrew Elohim can refer to God/gods, angels, and to humans; so if the angel is called Elohim, no difficulty should arise.
ReplyDelete"Face to "face" also means "mouth to mouth" in Hebrew. In Deut 5:4, "face to face" seems to describe the mode whereby Jehovah speaks from the midst of the fire. Therefore, IMO, the face is not being manifested through/from the fire, nor a voice specifically, but a person speaking in a certain way (face to face). However, see Deut 5:5 which makes a qualifying statement.