Jehovah cares for animals; of that fact, I have no doubt (Proverbs 12:10). On the other hand, what about the thousands upon thousands of animals sacrificed by the nation of Israel and the animals killed during the flood? Did not King Solomon offer up 100,000 animals (around that number) at one time to Jehovah?
"And Solomon offered for the sacrifice of peace-offerings, which he offered unto Jehovah, two and twenty thousand oxen, and a hundred and twenty thousand sheep. So the king and all the children of Israel dedicated the house of Jehovah" (1 Kings 8:63 ASV).
Compare verse 64.
Joseph Benson: "1 Kings 8:63. And Solomon offered — By the hands of the priests, two and twenty thousand oxen, &c. — Not all in one day, but in seven, or, it may be, in the fourteen days mentioned 1 Kings 8:65. So the king and all Israel dedicated the house of the Lord — Began to set it apart for the work and services of God by these sacrifices and holy exercises."
NIV Cultural Backgrounds Study Bible: "fellowship offerings to the Lord: twenty-two thousand cattle and a hundred and twenty thousand sheep and goats. The parameters of the fellowship offering are not clear, but the amount of meat generated could certainly have fed a large percentage of the people gathered for the temple dedication ceremony. Sacrifices numbering thousands of animals were not uncommon in the temple and palace dedications of Egyptian pharaohs and Assyrian monarchs."
Yet are we to conclude it's wrong for us to eat meat for survival? Furthermore, if Paul insists that "all things" have been sanctified by God--give thanksgiving and eat (1 Timothy 4:1-5).
Two caveats:
1) I am not passing judgment on God and claiming that those animals never should have been sacrificed. Jehovah, in his infinite wisdom, saw good reason to accept sacrifice for sins, praise, and thanksgiving. See also Genesis 4:4-5; Hebrews 9:22; 10:1-4.
2) I'm not suggesting that veganism/vegetarianism is wrong; brothers and sisters are free to eat meat and they're free to abstain from eating meat. I respect either decision. More importantly, so does Jehovah.
Yes, all humans can choose to eat what they want to eat (Except Blood). It goes both ways, we don't need to say that eating meat is wrong or being a vegan is wrong. But, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ did eat the Passover lamb, so we know it is not wrong to eat meat. Nor does it matter if we don't eat meat.
ReplyDeleteAgree 100%, Philip. I'll let each brother/sister make his or her own decision about these matters. I've also begun to ask myself whether I should even be debating these matters.
ReplyDeleteThanks,
Edgar
Yes, I agree, no more debate:-
ReplyDeletehttps://gain.fas.usda.gov/Recent%20GAIN%20Publications/Grain%20and%20Feed%20Annual_Tel%20Aviv_Israel_2-17-2015.pdf
https://journals.uair.arizona.edu/index.php/jrm/article/download/4489/4100
Solomon was wise and everything needs context.
Jehovah approved & the land was blessed for a time.
The Genesis 3 curse & Genesis 8 removal - its a pity that we cannot know what this is saying.
Might want to go with clarifications of matters of the subject. I've seen to many get emotional about it. But really we both just want to give the bibles answers on these type of subjects. Unless you are doing it for educational purposes. On another matter.Have you seen the new publication pure worship restored? If not you are going to like it.
ReplyDeleteDuncan, could you expand on the curse part of your remarks? Genesis 3 and 8?
ReplyDeletePhilip, you're right that the Bible should be the main authority, where the buck stops. I have also seen the pure worship restored publication and I love it. Look forward to reading it. The prophecy of Ezekiel contains so many gems; the new publication will help us to uncover them.
Thanks Philip. I either missed the announcement for this new publication or did not pay enough attention. Just had a quick look at it, Interesting. I may get opportunity to read some of it this weekend.
ReplyDeleteEdgar,
Do you recall the curse at Genesis 8:21, is this the same curse lifted from Genesis 3:17? What was the curse?
I don't want to be dogmatic, Duncan, but I've always thought that the curses could be the same. Like all other matters, some probably agree while others disagree with me.
ReplyDeleteBenson Commentary--the same curse in both verses
Barnes Notes--the curses are probably not the same
Gill's Exposition--they're the same
and so forth
http://sciencepress.mnhn.fr/sites/default/files/articles/pdf/az1992n16a7.pdf
ReplyDeleteActs 11:27-30
ReplyDeletehttps://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Tdc2xWbUCx0C&pg=PA50&lpg=PA50&dq=rifkin+%22this+deed+was+done+by+all+the+gods%22+%22i+did+not+do+it%22&source=bl&ots=c0fjjrjtNI&sig=zhSZ388d9k-GAP7bT8DLDHcMHxk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjwpqaW-vvdAhVSzaQKHXqRAtUQ6AEwAHoECAAQAQ#v=onepage&q=rifkin%20%22this%20deed%20was%20done%20by%20all%20the%20gods%22%20%22i%20did%20not%20do%20it%22&f=false
ReplyDeletehttp://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Queen_of_Sheba
ReplyDeleteSearch in page for "kerma".
https://www.quora.com/How-many-cows-are-brought-up-in-one-hectare-of-land
ReplyDelete"Depends where the hectare is in the world and what kind of cows you have. I can graze two 1000 lb cows per acre here in the NW USA on irrigated and fertilized pasture in the summer. If I did not have irrigation - I would graze one cow per 400 acres or more in the summer since we are a desert landscape and have no rain most of the year. A larger cow might require even more land to stay in condition. It all depends on the quality of your grassland. One hectare equals 2.47 acres."
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/ag.lnd.agri.k2
Israel 5,110 5,339 K2
= 2061.399 square miles.
= 1319040 Acres.
/ 400 Acre per cow = 3298 cows.
So where did all the oxen come from (based on similar grazing requirements)?
Or, how different was the land at the time?
Serious questions to ponder.
In the UK on high quality pasture you can get 6-10 sheep per acre. But the same scaling applies. They can graze on land that cattle cannot but there would be some overlap of pasturage which reduces density for both types sharing.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.jstor.org/stable/43722338
ReplyDeleteHave not had time to read this yet.
1 Kings 8:5 seems worthy of note.
ReplyDeleteIn India it is illegal in many states to eat beef:-
ReplyDeletehttp://uk.businessinsider.com/stunning-photos-of-the-worlds-largest-animal-sacrifice-2014-12?r=US&IR=T
In contrast with:-
ReplyDeletehttps://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/india-cow-murder-slaughter-madhya-pradesh-mob-violence-protection-gau-rakshaks-a8361096.html
http://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/india/israel
ReplyDelete500000 / 185 = 2703
ReplyDeleteThese comments by Donald J. Wiseman (Tyndale Commentary) might repeat something you've posted, but here it goes:
ReplyDeleteSolomon's feast (8:62–66). This inaugurates the temple as the place of sacrifice. That all offered a sacrifice means that they brought their offerings (12:27). Dedicated: ḥānak is literally to ‘begin, inaugurate, initiate’; of a child, Prov. 22:6; ora home, Deut. 20:5. Later the Feast of Hannukah commemorated the rededication of the temple in 164 BC. The large number of sacrifices is given in general terms, but details of similar acts at the opening of new buildings at Nimrud, ⁸¹ Ashur and Nineveh ⁸² also tell of many sacrifices and participants. The fellowship offering (AV, RSV ‘peace offerings’, šĕlāmîm; cf. JB ‘communion sacrifice offerings’, REB ‘shared offerings’, others ‘thank offer- ings’) was shared by God, priests and worshippers. Some argue that this offering was the last offered and listed, hence ‘concluding sacrifice’, and see in Ephesians 2:14 Christ’s final sacrifice for humankind (cf. Heb. 9:27; 10:12–14). 64. The number of offerings required greater space (and altars), so the whole courtyard was consecrated (qdš ) and used. The bronze altar is now introduced (cf. 9:25). The other offerings were part of the regular daily sacrifice.
Thanks Edgar,
ReplyDeleteDo you have the footnote details of 81 & 82?
Found this :-
ReplyDeletehttp://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details.aspx?objectId=282224&partId=1
(29) Offerings, the desire of the heart,
(30) consisting of huge oxen
(31) and fat sheep, pure
(32) and of great size, he offered,
The techniques of the sacrifice of animals in ancient israel and ancient mesopotamia - Andrews University
ReplyDeletehttps://www.andrews.edu/library/car/cardigital/Periodicals/AUSS/2006-1/2006-1-02.pdf
All cultures in near East & also the ones I have posted from north east Africa (which I think have a closer affinity to Solomon) are domestic animals only. The modern sacrifice in India today are also domestic animals only.
What was the total number of animals sacrificed by Solomon?
Note the structure of 1 kings 8 and in particular v5 & v62-64. V65 does extend the territory.
https://www.academia.edu/8850070/Animal_sacrifice_in_antiquity
ReplyDeleteSee "The sacrificial victim" - all domestic.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jacopo_Mazzorin/publication/285775950_Dog_sacrifice_in_the_ancient_world_A_ritual_passage/links/5a58a8930f7e9b409dc56044/Dog-sacrifice-in-the-ancient-world-A-ritual-passage.pdf?origin=publication_detail
ReplyDeleteAnother form of domestic animal sacrifice.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=jPY5pbh8cTUC&pg=PA341&lpg=PA341&dq=ancient+landscape+destruction+domestic&source=bl&ots=XfeuW32UNa&sig=R6R0ZxWH7rr9D7RwkFWhcZb-bxk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj3mp2crITeAhVCQ8AKHVOwBlQQ6AEwDXoECAUQAQ#v=onepage&q=Gazelle%20domestic&f=false
ReplyDeleteDuncan,
ReplyDeleteHere are the footnote details you requested from Wiseman's book on 1 and 2 Kings:
81. D. J. Wiseman, ‘A New Stela of Aššur-naṣir-pal II’, Iraq 14, 1952, p. 32, 1. 149; 869 BC with 69, 574 participants in 869 BC.
82. D. D. Luckenbill, The Annals of Sennacherib (Chicago: Chicago University Press, 1924), p. 116 (‘Palace without a Rival’, viii.65–76, ‘countless sacrifices’ at the dedication).
Hope these are useful.
The Scurlock journal article regarding sacrifices states that generally speaking, domesticated animals were sacrificed. He then goes on to draw a contrast between Israelite and other cultural sacrifices. Interesting that some domesticated animals were considered unclean and not sacrificed.
ReplyDelete"Israelite and ancient Mesopotamian customs regarding regular offerings would seem to present the most extreme contrast possible. Indeed, it is hard to imagine there being much common ground between the ancient Mesopotamian custom of careful cooking and presentation of sacrificial animals, followed by redistribution of the leftovers on the one hand and the Israelite holocaust offering on the other. Appearances can, however, be deceptive."
Note the meditations on domestication here: https://books.google.com/books?id=5k6rAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA69&lpg=PA69&dq=did+the+ancient+israelites+ever+sacrifice+a+non-domestic+animal?&source=bl&ots=5IcYO4KoQp&sig=RKvI0AFvTTWGtlnmbgwqw9IHxNA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwis-_GU6oTeAhXIm-AKHW2iBkoQ6AEwDXoECAMQAQ#v=onepage&q=did%20the%20ancient%20israelites%20ever%20sacrifice%20a%20non-domestic%20animal%3F&f=false
ReplyDeleteRene Girard and Walter Burkert apparently take a different approach to sacrifice. I remember studying Burkert's work about Greek religion, but have only read Girard sparingly.