I think this may underline the fact, that even today people say they worship God. But what does that mean? Or to play to your theme Pahad Elohim. To them probably fear the Creator. Yet the term may still leave a certain ambiguity. With one's misunderstanding of Jesus and worse the Trinity, God has been confused with other deities or persons. To put a name on a deity is to clarify. In this case of Maimonides the translation used (Tanach ?) used the term 'Hashem' (The Name) still lack of personhood. Almost comical, yet in there misguided attempts to avoid using the divine Name choose to use this term.
Thanks for your comments. I read an argument yesterday about why Jehovah should not be used, and also why the ancient Jews did not use the divine name. I must admit that it's still hard for me to understand why someone would espouse not using at least YHWH, Yahweh or Yehovah. Exodus 20:7 forbids using Jehovah's name in vain: it does not say the name should not be pronounced at all. But people have come up with all kinds of ways to avoid saying the divine name, including Adonai and Hashem. Maybe one day I'll post the information where the writer insists that God's name is not Jehovah, etc.
Thanks for your comments. In my opinion, the issue is between Jehovah and the translators of the Tanach and other translations that do not use the Divine name. After all, we did not put the Name in the Hebrew text. Jehovah did! To use surrogates such as Adonai or Hashem is certainly a misrepresentation of the text. I ran across this gentleman one day reading the Hebrew text (Stuttgartensia I assume)at a local coffee shop. And I asked him to read Deut.6.4.The famous Shema. And of course he read Adonai in place of Jehovah. I expressed to him that he is not reading the God given text as it was inspired. He was a bit surprised by my insistence. I think he realized my point after a few more text. As to Pharaoh, he did not know Jehovah at all (Ex.5.2) but he soon did. Ex.7.5 Ex.7.17 Yadah anihu YHWH Ex9.16 Here's my point that of course you know. No one has the right to remove it. There is no other name or title that comes close to it's usage. Hardly any other word that appears so frequently in the Hebrew text. I know I'm rambling. One night I had an Adventist friend over and his Pastor, and to make this point I said blind fold me,turn me round and round, and You open my Biblical Hebraica Stuttgartensia any where, and there is the name.
We're on the same page regarding how we view use of the divine name, and I appreciate your zeal for the divine name. I'm sure you also know that the practice of using surrogates for YHWH goes back to antiquity. It's rooted in a misreading of Exod 20:7 and Leviticus 24:16. But I've found that Dutch Calvinists, of all people, have traditionally had no problem with employing Jehovah as the personal name for God. And while I don't think Yahweh is likely to be the right reconstruction of YHWH, I give some credit to Rotherham (I believe) who at least saw the need to use YHWH in his Bible.
Dutch pronounces the J with a Y sound. I can't say that I know much about the language, but I know someone who does. In any event, you're right about the Y sound for Dutch.
I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem that God's name in Hebrew is pronounced with a J. To my understanding, Jehovah's Witnesses don't teach that God's name is pronounced with a J in Hebrew--that is the way it's said in English.
The publications of Witnesses also say we don't know how God's name was pronounced by ancient Jews. The exact pronunciation has been lost.
From Worldwide Security Under the “Prince of Peace” p. 176-177:
Fulfilled then will be the words of Zechariah 14:9: “In that day Jehovah will prove to be one, and his name one.” Jehovah alone will be worshiped as the one true God. In “that day” of Jehovah’s Kingdom by the “Prince of Peace,” God will reveal the exact pronunciation of his name. Then there will be just one pronunciation of that holy name by everybody on earth. His name will be one.
In response to Duncan, The Hebrew has no J. 'Hey' was never pronounced as a J in Hebrew. I have had people come to me and say that Jehovah is not a Hebrew name. You can't find Jehovah in any Hebrew Lexicon. Well, you can't find Jeremiah, Joshua, or any J names. They are Anglicized. Can't find Jesus in a Greek lexicon, at least not in Greek, it to has been Anglicized.
I think this may underline the fact, that even today people say they worship God. But what does that mean? Or to play to your theme Pahad Elohim. To them probably fear the Creator. Yet the term may still leave a certain ambiguity. With one's misunderstanding of Jesus and worse the Trinity, God has been confused with other deities or persons. To put a name on a deity is to clarify. In this case of Maimonides the translation used (Tanach ?) used the term 'Hashem' (The Name) still lack of personhood. Almost comical, yet in there misguided attempts to avoid using the divine Name choose to use this term.
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comments. I read an argument yesterday about why Jehovah should not be used, and also why the ancient Jews did not use the divine name. I must admit that it's still hard for me to understand why someone would espouse not using at least YHWH, Yahweh or Yehovah. Exodus 20:7 forbids using Jehovah's name in vain: it does not say the name should not be pronounced at all. But people have come up with all kinds of ways to avoid saying the divine name, including Adonai and Hashem. Maybe one day I'll post the information where the writer insists that God's name is not Jehovah, etc.
ReplyDeleteEdgar;
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comments. In my opinion, the issue is between Jehovah and the translators of the Tanach and other translations that do not use the Divine name. After all, we did not put the Name in the Hebrew text. Jehovah did! To use surrogates such as Adonai or Hashem is certainly a misrepresentation of the text. I ran across this gentleman one day reading the Hebrew text (Stuttgartensia I assume)at a local coffee shop. And I asked him to read Deut.6.4.The famous Shema. And of course he read Adonai in place of Jehovah. I expressed to him that he is not reading the God given text as it was inspired. He was a bit surprised by my insistence. I think he realized my point after a few more text. As to Pharaoh, he did not know Jehovah at all (Ex.5.2) but he soon did. Ex.7.5 Ex.7.17 Yadah anihu YHWH Ex9.16 Here's my point that of course you know. No one has the right to remove it. There is no other name or title that comes close to it's usage. Hardly any other word that appears so frequently in the Hebrew text. I know I'm rambling. One night I had an Adventist friend over and his Pastor, and to make this point I said blind fold me,turn me round and round, and You open my Biblical Hebraica Stuttgartensia any where, and there is the name.
dokimazo,
ReplyDeleteWe're on the same page regarding how we view use of the divine name, and I appreciate your zeal for the divine name. I'm sure you also know that the practice of using surrogates for YHWH goes back to antiquity. It's rooted in a misreading of Exod 20:7 and Leviticus 24:16. But I've found that Dutch Calvinists, of all people, have traditionally had no problem with employing Jehovah as the personal name for God. And while I don't think Yahweh is likely to be the right reconstruction of YHWH, I give some credit to Rotherham (I believe) who at least saw the need to use YHWH in his Bible.
Didn't the Dutch use "Jehovah" pronounced with a "Y" (kjv1611 uses "I"). Already posted Nehemiah Gordon's research that also leans that way.
ReplyDeleteThere is evidence of a j sound in Hebrew but no evidence for it in this or other Hebrew names.
If we say it is the traditional spelling in English, is it the traditional pronunciation?
Dutch pronounces the J with a Y sound. I can't say that I know much about the language, but I know someone who does. In any event, you're right about the Y sound for Dutch.
ReplyDeleteI could be wrong, but it doesn't seem that God's name in Hebrew is pronounced with a J. To my understanding, Jehovah's Witnesses don't teach that God's name is pronounced with a J in Hebrew--that is the way it's said in English.
The publications of Witnesses also say we don't know how God's name was pronounced by ancient Jews. The exact pronunciation has been lost.
From Worldwide Security Under the “Prince of Peace” p. 176-177:
ReplyDeleteFulfilled then will be the words of Zechariah 14:9: “In that day Jehovah will prove to be one, and his name one.” Jehovah alone will be worshiped as the one true God. In “that day” of Jehovah’s Kingdom by the “Prince of Peace,” God will reveal the exact pronunciation of his name. Then there will be just one pronunciation of that holy name by everybody on earth. His name will be one.
The point I was driving at is that Jehovah IS pronounced with a J in English, but WAS it pronounced with a J in English?
ReplyDeleteI am also looking at Tyndale's rendering of Hebrew names.
In response to Duncan, The Hebrew has no J. 'Hey' was never pronounced as a J in Hebrew. I have had people come to me and say that Jehovah is not a Hebrew name. You can't find Jehovah in any Hebrew Lexicon. Well, you can't find Jeremiah, Joshua, or any J names. They are Anglicized. Can't find Jesus in a Greek lexicon, at least not in Greek, it to has been Anglicized.
ReplyDeleteThanks, dokimazo.
ReplyDeleteDuncan, see https://www.dictionary.com/e/j/
Compare the Latin word, iam.
To all. I should have said the letter yod was never pronounced in Hebrew nor transliterated as a J from any Hebrew lexicon. It was Anglicized as a J.
ReplyDeletehttps://biblehub.com/hebrew/ushemo_8034.htm
ReplyDelete