Greek (THGNT): Ἡμῖν δὲ ἀπεκάλυψεν ὁ θεὸς διὰ τοῦ πνεύματος· τὸ γὰρ πνεῦμα πάντα ἐραυνᾷ, καὶ τὰ βάθη τοῦ θεοῦ.
1 Corinthians 2:10 (YLT): "but to us did God reveal [them] through His Spirit, for the Spirit all things doth search, even the depths of God"
We're encouraged to meditate (think deeply) when reading the Bible (Psalm 1:1-3). For instance, it's good to ask what a Bible account tells us about Jehovah, how we can apply what we're reading, and also how can we use the material to help others? Moreover, how does the Bible account we're reading help us to appreciate the overall tenor of Scripture?
It's essential to think about the context of what we're reading. Why did the Bible writer pen those words? What point was he trying to make? What is the setting of the Bible book? For example, the Pauline epistles normally address specific issues, questions or problems.
I've included a sample text above, on which one might meditate. In addition to the foregoing questions, things I would ask about this verse include: What is the identity of "us" (to whom does the plural pronoun refer?); to what does the understood "them" refer in the passage? What does it mean for God to reveal something through his Spirit/spirit? In what sense does the spirit search into all things? What is the referent of πάντα? What are the depths or deep things of God? Does the context elucidate these questions?
This is just a brief review of how we might ask questions about Bible texts. We must meditate on Jehovah's Word since his thoughts are deep and multifaceted (Psalm 92:5; Romans 11:33).
Deuteronomy ch.25:3 NIV"but the judge must not impose more than forty lashes. If the guilty party is flogged more than that, your fellow Israelite will be degraded in your eyes." I Would sometimes bring up the issue of JEHOVAH'S standard of Justice as revealed in scripture in contrast to the injustice of eternal conscious torment when having discussions with proponents of that doctrine. We note that regardless of how outraged the community may have been by his wrongdoing or how incorrigible the offender may seem to his judges there was an upper limit on the amount of punitive pain they were allowed inflict on him. Thus the JEHOVAH we have come to know and love is not the sort of potentate who would think up anything as unjust as eternal conscious torment.
ReplyDeleteHere's an interesting one Hebrews 1:2 the word rendered "age" "universe" (Moff,GDSPD) etc does this word indicate time itself? or does it exclude time (being made) because it always refers to a time period
ReplyDelete"was" in John 1:1 is in the imperfect - indicating an uncompleted action - some think eternity, Barclay says we should (understand) "see" it as aorist
Wallace says about imperfect nouns that sometimes they relate to the writers point of view, in John 1:1s case the beginning has ended, but the word still exists.. idk you get the point
John ch.1:10NIV"He WAS in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. "
ReplyDeleteAnonymous: see the discussion on Hebrews 1:2 in Paul Ellingworth's Hebrews commentary. He insists that the word in this context refers to "the totality of the universe" and that the plural form of the word here is indistinguishable in meaning from its singular form. So, he's arguing that the sense in Heb. 1:2 is more spatial than temporal. See LSJ and BDAG.
ReplyDeleteI've read a lot of commentary about John 1:1 and remember what these Trinitarians usually say about the imperfect at John 1:1.
Here's M.J. Harris' take on the verse (John, EGGNT Commentary):
1:1a Ἦν 3rd sg. impf. of εἰμί, “be.” Since the Greek Bible begins with the
expression ἐν ἀρχῇ, it is likely that John is alluding to Gen 1:1. Although ἐν ἀρχῇ is anar., the sense is def., “in the beginning,” since the art. is often omitted in prep. phrases, esp. those denoting time (BDF §255 [3]; R 791–92). The sense is not “From the very beginning,” which would be ἀπ᾽ ἀρχῆς (1 John 1:1; 3:8). “In the beginning” means in effect “before the world was created” (GNB; cf. John 17:5, 24; Eph 1:4). In Prov 8:23–24 (LXX) ἐν ἀρχῇ clearly means “before time was” and “before he (the Lord) made the earth.” In itself v. 1a speaks only of the pretemporality or supratemporality of the Logos, but through the conjunction of ἐν ἀρχῇ and ἦν (not ἐγένετο) John implies the eternal preexistence of the Logos. Ἦν therefore signifies timeless existence: “(In the beginning the Word) was already eternally existing” or “(At the beginning the Word) had always been in existence” (cf. McHugh 9, “there existed”).
Servant: I like that approach to the question of eternal torment. It goes along nicely with references like Jeremiah 7:31 and 1 John 4:8. Deuteronomy 32:4 likewise gives us a beautiful reassurance that the God of all the earth cannot act unjustly.
ReplyDelete"Beginning" "end" are temporal distinctions there can be no temporal distinctions outside of time.
ReplyDeleteAnother consideration of course is that their can be no free moral agency if time is a creation.
ReplyDeleteOkay, I've got to admit that I sometimes get wearied from John 1:1 discussions, but I agree with the point about temporal distinctions. Lots of things are impossible if there is no time and that includes change or the concepts of beginning and end.
ReplyDeleteThe NABRE has this note for John 1:1: "In the beginning: also the first words of the Old Testament (Gn 1:1). Was: this verb is used three times with different meanings in this verse: existence, relationship, and predication. The Word (Greek logos): this term combines God’s dynamic, creative word (Genesis), personified preexistent Wisdom as the instrument of God’s creative activity (Proverbs), and the ultimate intelligibility of reality (Hellenistic philosophy). With God: the Greek preposition here connotes communication with another. Was God: lack of a definite article with 'God' in Greek signifies predication rather than identification."
Trinitarians often try to make hay of the distinction between "was" and "became" in John 1.
1John ch.1:1NIV"That which was from(apo) the beginning,..."
ReplyDeleteCompare John ch.8:44
Why is the conjunction translated as "even"?
ReplyDeleteM.J. Harris contends that "in the beginning" (Genesis 1:1 LXX; John 1:1a) differs from 1 John 1:1; 3:8.
ReplyDeleteHe writes: "The sense is not 'From the very beginning,' which would be ἀπ᾽ ἀρχῆς (1 John 1:1; 3:8)."
John 8:44 has ἐκεῖνος ἀνθρωποκτόνος ἦν ἀπ' ἀρχῆς
Good question, Duncan. For those who might like an answer, see https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.04.0057:entry=kai/1
ReplyDeletehttps://biblehub.com/text/mark/1-5.htm
ReplyDelete