"For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 8:38-9 NRSV).
I've heard it suggested that the angels who cannot separate Christians from God's love in Christ Jesus are not demons, but holy angels. Or some claim they're possibly "angelic" humans in the ecclesia. However, Paul evidently uses the word "angels" sometimes to reference demons. See 1 Corinthians 4:9; 6:3; 11:10; 13:1; 2 Corinthians 11:14. Compare the usage in 2 Corinthians 12:7; Galatians 1:8; 4:14.
Douglas Moo (The Epistle to the Romans, page 545):
Revelation ch.12:7NKJV"And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his ANGELS fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his ANGELS fought, "
ReplyDeletefallen angels
ReplyDeletePaul’s usage reveals nothing - John’s usage however again proves useful
ReplyDeleteNote what Clement interprets this as:
ReplyDelete“For I am persuaded that neither death,” through the assault of persecutors, “nor life” in this world, “nor angels,” the apostate ones, “nor powers” (and Satan’s power is the life which he chose, for such are the powers and principalities of darkness belonging to him), “nor things present,” amid which we exist during the time of life, as the hope entertained by the soldier, and the merchant’s gain, “nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature,” in consequence of the energy proper to a man,—opposes the faith of him who acts according to free choice. “Creature” is synonymous with activity, being our work, and such activity “shall not be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
He might not mean spiritual angels at all..
Some early Christian thinkers (I'm thinking of Origen right now) thought there were 'good' angels, fallen angels, and those in between. I.e. the spirit realm was as messy and complicated as the human realm.
ReplyDeleteStill not convinced by moo - especially when I compare Ephesians 3 with Deu. 32:1. Something else going on here.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying that Moo is correct, but his main point is that the lexical data does not permit us to be certain about the meaning of Romans 8:38-39 and its mention of angels. Maybe we can determine who the "angels" are in the passage but it seems difficult to say.
ReplyDeleteWhich verse from Ephesians 3 do you have in mind?
A discussion of Origen's angelology:
ReplyDeletehttps://philarchive.org/rec/HAEOSA#:~:text=Origen%20of%20Alexandria%20can%20be%20credited%20as%20the,the%20creator%20and%20the%20interpreter%20of%20the%20angels.
Will answer when I have looked into it a bit more, but I also think I need to read some of this book, reviewed here - https://www.academia.edu/21971730/Review_of_Cline_Rangar_2011_Ancient_Angels_Conceptualising_Angeloi_in_the_Roman_Empire_Brill_Classical_Review_63_2_2013_
ReplyDelete