Friday, November 04, 2016

Question from Omar Regarding Colossians 1:15 (Partitive Genitive)

Omar,

These comments are extensive, and I don't know if time will permit me to address the entire post. However, I hope others will give input to your question about Colossians 1:15. I'll post all that you sent me.

trinitarian objection

I find it interesting your comment when you say that in the case of Colossians 1:15 "clear" is a genitive of PARTITION since "meets the characteristics of this type of genitive" ... I ask is that clear to whom or according to whom? Do gramatólogos? ¿Biblical exegetes? ..... Or according to you? Especially since according to Greek grammar there are various types of genitive ... Why would that be a partitive genitive and not one of subordination or source / cause? You say that the expression in Colossians 1:15 "meets the characteristics of a partitive genitive features" .... ask what characteristics? ¿Grammatical? ... It is one thing to "say" and another is DEMONSTRATE. Well, I'll show that the genitive in Colossians 1:15 is anything but partitivo. And for that I will present an analysis of grammatical structure and morphology of comparative examples where there is no biblical doubt that a partitive genitive is used. Then we will check with the grammatical and morphological structure of Colossians 1:15 to see if it meets the characteristics of the other examples.

2) Analysis of morpho-grammatical construction of sentences where the partitive genitive is used:

*** 1 Corinthians 15: 9 ***

"The least of the apostles"

ο ελάχιστος των αποστόλων
(Adj-nom + Art-gen + Sust-gen)

Prayer indicates that Paul was the smallest of the "group" of the apostles.

Colossians 1:18 *** ***

"The firstborn from the dead"

πρωτότοκος εκ των νεκρών

(Adj-nom + Prep + Art-gen + Adj-gen)

This text indicates that Jesus is the Principal "the group" of those who have died.

*** Revelation 1: 5 ***

"The firstborn from the dead"

ο πρωτοτόκος των νεκρών

(Adj-nom + Art-gen + Adj-gen)

This text indicates that Jesus is the Principal "the group" of those who have died.

*** Romans 10: 7 ***

"Christ from the dead"

χριστόν εκ νεκρών

(Sust-acu + Prep + Adj-gen)

Prayer indicates that Christ was "part of the group" of the dead.

*** *** Mark 4:31 Beza, Byz2005, TR

"The smallest of all seeds"

μικρότερος πάντων των σπερμάτων

(Adj-nom + Adj-gen + Art-gen + Sust-gen)

Prayer means that the mustard seed is the smallest "the group" of seeds.

*** *** Mark 4:32 NA27

"The greatest of all vegetables"

μειζον παντων των λαχανων

(Adj-nom + Adj-gen + Art-gen + Sust-gen)

Prayer means that the mustard seed when it grows is the largest "the group" vegetables.

*** Acts 2: 5 ***

devout men from every nation

άνδρες ευλαβείς από παντός έθνους

(Sust-nom + Adj-nom + Prep + Adj-gen + Sust-gen)

The sentence clearly indicates that these devout men belonged to the nations.

*** Revelation 7: 4 ***

"Sealed from all the tribes of the children"

εσφραγισμένοι εκ πάσης φυλής υιών

(Verb-Nom + Prep + Adj-gen + Sust-gen + Sust-gen)

The text indicates that the 144,000 sealed "are part of the group" of the tribes.

Romans 8:29 *** ***

"The firstborn among many brethren"

πρωτότοκον εν πολλοίς αδελφοίς

(Adj-acu + Prep + Adj-dat + Sust-dat)

This text indicates that Jesus is the Principal or Preeminent among believers.

3)by Wallace use of prepositions and / is definite article, which confirms the analysis presented. Also the scholar John Pappas Greek grammar in his book "An intermediate grammar for New Testament Greek" says about partitive genitive: *** partitive genitive. The partitive genitive modifies the head noun to denote that part is identified. Instead of the word "of", you can substitute the words, "which are part of". For example, Mark 2: 6, "some of the scribes," they are part of the group of scribes (cf. Mark 6:23 Luke 19: 8., Rom 11:13; 11:17) [An intermediate grammar the Greek New Testament (John Pappas)] *** Also professor of Greek Flaminio Poggi in his "advanced course in New Testament Greek" explains the features of the partitive genitive saying: *** The partitive genitive expresses the complete set of governing the term indicates the part. For this reason often introduced with pronouns (τις, τίς, έκαυτος) or nouns or adjectives substantivized indicating quantity (όχλος, πλήθος, πολλοί and clearly the είς numerals, δύο, etc. *** Then the teacher added: *** "In addition to simple genitive, partitive complement can be expressed with the genitive preceded by the άπό and έκ prepositions" [...] the partitivo, simple or preceded by άπό and έκ genitive, can be used as a subject (cf. Acts. 19 33) or as a direct object (cf. Luke 21:16). It is braquiológicas buildings, ie synthetic, which is easy to understand an indefinite pronoun: τινας in Lk 21.36 and 19.33 τινες in Acts. **** Then, according to the morphological comparative grammatical analysis presented on the use of the partitive genitive we see that the grammatical structure of Colossians 1:15 does not meet the characteristics of the partitive genitive (contrary to the assertion of the Jehovah's Witnesses)

2 comments:

Edgar Foster said...

Omar, please see this link for starters: http://jehovah.to/exe/discussion/prwtotokos_lexical.htm

The post was written by a brother named Wes Williams.

omar meza solano said...

Edgar Ok, thanks will read