Tuesday, August 01, 2017

Job 38:7 (Angels?)--Evidence from LXX and Targum of Job

Job 38:7 (LXX): ὅτε ἐγενήθησαν ἄστρα ᾔνεσάν με φωνῇ μεγάλῃ πάντες ἄγγελοί μου

The sons of God are explicitly identified as angels/messengers in this verse.

Also see http://jewishchristianlit.com/Texts/StudTxts/11Q10!.html

"Where were you when I created the earth? Answer, if you can 3 who created , measurements? Or who used a tape measure? Or what are its bases set to or who set the cornerstone. 7 When the stars shown [sic] in the morning and all the angels of God song? Can you lock the entrace [sic] to the sea when it tries to leave the deep murky bottom. When did you where [?] clouds as cloths and fog as baby's cloths" (Targum of Job, Col. XXX).

Compare https://www.sefaria.org/Aramaic_Targum_to_Job.38?lang=bi

http://www.brill.com/text-targum-job

http://www.deadseascrolls.org.il/explore-the-archive/manuscript/11Q10-1?locale=en_US

See doctoral thesis here: https://ora.ox.ac.uk/objects/uuid%3A039b549f-3491-4f98-869a-33eba9d04f5a



26 comments:

Duncan said...

This Targum is clearly based on the LXX.

Duncan said...

https://biblicalarchaeology.org.uk/pdf/ajba/01-2_019.pdf

See page 22 on date of origin.

Also LXX of verse 12 must also be taken into account.

Job 38:12 η επι σου συντεταχα φεγγος πρωϊνον Εωσφορος δε ειδε την εαυτου ταξιν

Duncan said...

As referenced in this Thesis - Psa 148:3 is of interest also.

Foot note of interest:-

449. E.g. 2Bar 51.10: the righteous will “be like the angels and be equal to the stars”; 1En 104.2: the righteous “shall shine like the lights of heaven”; 4Ez 7.97, 125; cf. Matt 13.43. Alexander, Targumim and Early Exegesis (66) refers to a line of interpretation which equated ohvkt hbc with ‘the
righteous line of Seth’.

Duncan said...

Also the reference to Dan 12.3.

Duncan said...

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=SPgkPA4aPz0C&pg=PA398&lpg=PA398&dq=lxx+job+38:7+cumran&source=bl&ots=ekEa7UH2u1&sig=XcuX1XgFDr_RrzTjeEgIHu-fOI4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj29uabnbjVAhVhAcAKHSYUA6AQ6AEIKzAB#v=onepage&q=lxx%20job%2038%3A7%20cumran&f=false

Duncan said...

http://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1189&context=studiaantiqua

See page 75.

Duncan said...

http://alternate-readings.blogspot.co.uk/2011/01/ambiguity-genesis-624.html

Duncan said...

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=JD-0SEV3Sd8C&pg=PA216&lpg=PA216&dq=%CF%85%E1%BC%B1%CE%BF%E1%BD%B6+%CF%84%CE%BF%E1%BF%A6+%CE%B8%CE%B5%CE%BF%E1%BF%A6+at+Gen+6:2&source=bl&ots=upluxTCONO&sig=lQgEjNFXuEtPRbLq8hhH68bDpEw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj27aeKo7jVAhWrBcAKHctWBBw4ChDoAQhEMAU#v=onepage&q=%CF%85%E1%BC%B1%CE%BF%E1%BD%B6%20%CF%84%CE%BF%E1%BF%A6%20%CE%B8%CE%B5%CE%BF%E1%BF%A6%20at%20Gen%206%3A2&f=false

Edgar Foster said...

A first century BCE date for the Targum of Job seems reasonable. Job 38:12 LXX does not rule out 38:7 referring to angels, which it clearly does. Notice that LXX does not use the expression "morning stars" in Job 38:7. It also uses the verb ἐγενήθησαν apparently to describe the action God took toward the stars.

Stuckenbruck, in a link I posted earlier, mentioned the two competing interpretations for "sons of God" (Gen 6:1-4) in antiquity. One approach was to take the sons as the line of Seth; the other was the angelic understanding. Therefore, the angelic interpretation of sons of God is quite old.

As pretty much always, we have room for different understandings of the text, but the whole of the biblical text coupled with other factors helps to elucidate problematic verses. Historically, while we know Jews interpreted the sons of God as men (in some cases), the angelic interpretation has also been strongly represented in the Jewish history of exegesis. And in Christian exegesis.

Duncan said...

https://www.academia.edu/3147626/_A_New_Magical_Formulary_?auto=download

See from bottom of page 203.

Duncan said...

https://www.academia.edu/5018455/Bryce_The_Kingdom_Of_The_Hittites

This work may have more details but I have not read it. The last one I read was by O R Gurney, some time ago.

Duncan said...

Gen 3:24  ויגרשׁ את האדם וישׁכן מקדם לגן עדן את הכרביםH3742 ואת להט החרבH2719 המתהפכת

Same tri root.

http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-the-sword-god-in-chamber-b-at-the-hittite-rock-sanctuary-of-yazilikiya-18250106.html

Duncan said...

FLAMING - COMPARE επαοιδοι LXX

Duncan said...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/01/tutankhamuns-blade-made-from-meteorite-study-reveals/

Duncan said...

https://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/iss/kap_a/advanced/aa_2_4.html

Duncan said...

https://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/ted_hildebrandt/otesources/01-genesis/text/articles-books/ouro-gen1_2_pt2_auss.pdf

Edgar Foster said...

Here is another article I came across this week: https://biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/eq/1974-2_081.pdf

Edgar Foster said...

See also this piece about Job: https://www.academia.edu/4543885/The_Text_and_Translations_of_Job_A_Comparative_Study_on_11QtgJob_with_Other_Versions_in_Light_of_Translation_Techniques

Duncan said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbfr-9US31k

Duncan said...

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/hebrew-bible/the-animals-went-in-two-by-two-according-to-babylonian-ark-tablet/

Duncan said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_fkpZSnz2I

Duncan said...

https://bible.org/users/sung-jin-park

Edgar Foster said...

I believe the alleged similarities between Genesis 6-8 and Babylonian myths (etc) have been highly exaggerated and I see no evidence for thinking Genesis depended on earlier myths. As an undergrad, I took a number of classes on myth in college. One book we used covered many creation stories and we read Epic of Gilgamesh and some others. One lesson it taught me was that it's best to read these accounts for oneself, if one is inclined, rather than depend on the account of others.

Here is a book review: https://www.academia.edu/8698448/Review_The_Ark_Before_Noah

OT scholar G.J. Wenham discusses Genesis and the Babylonian stories here: https://wordandworld.luthersem.edu/content/pdfs/14-2_Genesis/14-2_Wenham.pdf

Duncan said...

The points about the kings list have been of interest to me for some time, especially taking into account the Babylonian base 6 number system. Came across this a while ago but have yet to go through it in detail:-

https://answersingenesis.org/bible-history/the-antediluvian-patriarchs-and-the-sumerian-king-list/

Duncan said...

I have this:-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Myths-and-Legends-of-the-Ancient-Near-East-2003-Folio-Society-Hardback-Slipcase/311921001899

&

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Myths-and-Legends-of-India-Book-Radice-William-intro-2001-ID-73351-/372024430482

but these are translations of languages that are not so well understood.

As far as reading Babylonian myths, one needs all the data in a work like this:-

https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Babylonian_Gilgamesh_Epic.html?id=fZaFoAEACAAJ&redir_esc=y

the text is being updated and expanded, ongoing but I see no evidence that the finkel tablet is in this tradition. Large assumptions are being made about how it fits into the multiple variant epics.

Edgar Foster said...

For Greco-Roman mythology, we used http://global.oup.com/us/companion.websites/9780195397703/

We read this book for creation myths: https://books.google.com/books?id=OzPLeTWeCBgC&printsec=frontcover&dq=David+Adams+Leeming+myth&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwim7uvK8MfVAhULOSYKHUWEAH8Q6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=David%20Adams%20Leeming%20myth&f=false

Then I was given a steady diet of Joseph Campbell. From time to time, I read parts of the Iliad or Odyssey, but for the most part, I do not read mythology anymore.

If one seriously wanted to study the Epic of Gilgamesh, that Oxford text would be a nice one to have. It looks well done.