Job 38:7 (LXX): ὅτε ἐγενήθησαν ἄστρα ᾔνεσάν με φωνῇ μεγάλῃ πάντες ἄγγελοί μου
The sons of God are explicitly identified as angels/messengers in this verse.
Also see http://jewishchristianlit.com/Texts/StudTxts/11Q10!.html
"Where were you when I created the earth? Answer, if you can 3 who created , measurements? Or who used a tape measure? Or what are its bases set to or who set the cornerstone. 7 When the stars shown [sic] in the morning and all the angels of God song? Can you lock the entrace [sic] to the sea when it tries to leave the deep murky bottom. When did you where [?] clouds as cloths and fog as baby's cloths" (Targum of Job, Col. XXX).
Compare https://www.sefaria.org/Aramaic_Targum_to_Job.38?lang=bi
http://www.brill.com/text-targum-job
http://www.deadseascrolls.org.il/explore-the-archive/manuscript/11Q10-1?locale=en_US
See doctoral thesis here: https://ora.ox.ac.uk/objects/uuid%3A039b549f-3491-4f98-869a-33eba9d04f5a
27 comments:
This Targum is clearly based on the LXX.
https://biblicalarchaeology.org.uk/pdf/ajba/01-2_019.pdf
See page 22 on date of origin.
Also LXX of verse 12 must also be taken into account.
Job 38:12 η επι σου συντεταχα φεγγος πρωϊνον Εωσφορος δε ειδε την εαυτου ταξιν
As referenced in this Thesis - Psa 148:3 is of interest also.
Foot note of interest:-
449. E.g. 2Bar 51.10: the righteous will “be like the angels and be equal to the stars”; 1En 104.2: the righteous “shall shine like the lights of heaven”; 4Ez 7.97, 125; cf. Matt 13.43. Alexander, Targumim and Early Exegesis (66) refers to a line of interpretation which equated ohvkt hbc with ‘the
righteous line of Seth’.
Also the reference to Dan 12.3.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=SPgkPA4aPz0C&pg=PA398&lpg=PA398&dq=lxx+job+38:7+cumran&source=bl&ots=ekEa7UH2u1&sig=XcuX1XgFDr_RrzTjeEgIHu-fOI4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj29uabnbjVAhVhAcAKHSYUA6AQ6AEIKzAB#v=onepage&q=lxx%20job%2038%3A7%20cumran&f=false
http://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1189&context=studiaantiqua
See page 75.
http://alternate-readings.blogspot.co.uk/2011/01/ambiguity-genesis-624.html
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=JD-0SEV3Sd8C&pg=PA216&lpg=PA216&dq=%CF%85%E1%BC%B1%CE%BF%E1%BD%B6+%CF%84%CE%BF%E1%BF%A6+%CE%B8%CE%B5%CE%BF%E1%BF%A6+at+Gen+6:2&source=bl&ots=upluxTCONO&sig=lQgEjNFXuEtPRbLq8hhH68bDpEw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj27aeKo7jVAhWrBcAKHctWBBw4ChDoAQhEMAU#v=onepage&q=%CF%85%E1%BC%B1%CE%BF%E1%BD%B6%20%CF%84%CE%BF%E1%BF%A6%20%CE%B8%CE%B5%CE%BF%E1%BF%A6%20at%20Gen%206%3A2&f=false
A first century BCE date for the Targum of Job seems reasonable. Job 38:12 LXX does not rule out 38:7 referring to angels, which it clearly does. Notice that LXX does not use the expression "morning stars" in Job 38:7. It also uses the verb ἐγενήθησαν apparently to describe the action God took toward the stars.
Stuckenbruck, in a link I posted earlier, mentioned the two competing interpretations for "sons of God" (Gen 6:1-4) in antiquity. One approach was to take the sons as the line of Seth; the other was the angelic understanding. Therefore, the angelic interpretation of sons of God is quite old.
As pretty much always, we have room for different understandings of the text, but the whole of the biblical text coupled with other factors helps to elucidate problematic verses. Historically, while we know Jews interpreted the sons of God as men (in some cases), the angelic interpretation has also been strongly represented in the Jewish history of exegesis. And in Christian exegesis.
https://www.academia.edu/3147626/_A_New_Magical_Formulary_?auto=download
See from bottom of page 203.
https://www.academia.edu/5018455/Bryce_The_Kingdom_Of_The_Hittites
This work may have more details but I have not read it. The last one I read was by O R Gurney, some time ago.
Gen 3:24 ויגרשׁ את האדם וישׁכן מקדם לגן עדן את הכרביםH3742 ואת להט החרבH2719 המתהפכת
Same tri root.
http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-the-sword-god-in-chamber-b-at-the-hittite-rock-sanctuary-of-yazilikiya-18250106.html
FLAMING - COMPARE επαοιδοι LXX
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/01/tutankhamuns-blade-made-from-meteorite-study-reveals/
https://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/iss/kap_a/advanced/aa_2_4.html
https://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/ted_hildebrandt/otesources/01-genesis/text/articles-books/ouro-gen1_2_pt2_auss.pdf
Here is another article I came across this week: https://biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/eq/1974-2_081.pdf
See also this piece about Job: https://www.academia.edu/4543885/The_Text_and_Translations_of_Job_A_Comparative_Study_on_11QtgJob_with_Other_Versions_in_Light_of_Translation_Techniques
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbfr-9US31k
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/hebrew-bible/the-animals-went-in-two-by-two-according-to-babylonian-ark-tablet/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_fkpZSnz2I
https://bible.org/users/sung-jin-park
I believe the alleged similarities between Genesis 6-8 and Babylonian myths (etc) have been highly exaggerated and I see no evidence for thinking Genesis depended on earlier myths. As an undergrad, I took a number of classes on myth in college. One book we used covered many creation stories and we read Epic of Gilgamesh and some others. One lesson it taught me was that it's best to read these accounts for oneself, if one is inclined, rather than depend on the account of others.
Here is a book review: https://www.academia.edu/8698448/Review_The_Ark_Before_Noah
OT scholar G.J. Wenham discusses Genesis and the Babylonian stories here: https://wordandworld.luthersem.edu/content/pdfs/14-2_Genesis/14-2_Wenham.pdf
The points about the kings list have been of interest to me for some time, especially taking into account the Babylonian base 6 number system. Came across this a while ago but have yet to go through it in detail:-
https://answersingenesis.org/bible-history/the-antediluvian-patriarchs-and-the-sumerian-king-list/
I have this:-
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Myths-and-Legends-of-the-Ancient-Near-East-2003-Folio-Society-Hardback-Slipcase/311921001899
&
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Myths-and-Legends-of-India-Book-Radice-William-intro-2001-ID-73351-/372024430482
but these are translations of languages that are not so well understood.
As far as reading Babylonian myths, one needs all the data in a work like this:-
https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Babylonian_Gilgamesh_Epic.html?id=fZaFoAEACAAJ&redir_esc=y
the text is being updated and expanded, ongoing but I see no evidence that the finkel tablet is in this tradition. Large assumptions are being made about how it fits into the multiple variant epics.
For Greco-Roman mythology, we used http://global.oup.com/us/companion.websites/9780195397703/
We read this book for creation myths: https://books.google.com/books?id=OzPLeTWeCBgC&printsec=frontcover&dq=David+Adams+Leeming+myth&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwim7uvK8MfVAhULOSYKHUWEAH8Q6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=David%20Adams%20Leeming%20myth&f=false
Then I was given a steady diet of Joseph Campbell. From time to time, I read parts of the Iliad or Odyssey, but for the most part, I do not read mythology anymore.
If one seriously wanted to study the Epic of Gilgamesh, that Oxford text would be a nice one to have. It looks well done.
I find it interesting what Augustine wrote (ironically) He seems to interpret it the same way most do, The angels were present and had a passive role in creation (applauding).
"Here the angels are most expressly and by divine authority said to have been made by God, for of them among the other heavenly things it is said, “He commanded, and they were created.” Who, then, will be bold enough to suggest that the angels were made after the six days’ creation? If any one is so foolish, his folly is disposed of by a scripture of like authority, where God says, “When the stars were made, the angels praised me with a loud voice.” The angels therefore existed before the stars; and the stars were made the fourth day. Shall we then say that they were made the third day? Far from it; for we know what was made that day. The earth was separated from the water, and each element took its own distinct form, and the earth produced all that grows on it. On the second day, then? Not even on this; for on it the firmament was made between the waters above and beneath, and was called “Heaven,” in which firmament the stars were made on the fourth day. There is no question, then, that if the angels are included in the works of God during these six days, they are that light which was called “Day,” and whose unity Scripture signalizes by calling that day not the “first day,”"
(https://www.catholiccrossreference.online/fathers/index.php/Job%2038:7)
and just to put the cork in:
"if we are justified in understanding in this light the creation of the angels, then certainly they were created partakers of the eternal light which is the unchangeable Wisdom of God, by which all things were made, and whom we call the only-begotten Son of God" - Augustine identifies the Wisdom of God as Christ.
So in essence, We could say "In the beginning the angels were in existence"
Post a Comment