Saturday, October 12, 2019

Lupieri and Revelation 3:14 (Beginning of the Creation)


6 comments:

Duncan said...

"John is not aware....ambiguous on this point."

Maybe it's ambiguous because this author is not reading it correctly.

Edgar Foster said...

Lupieri claims the passage is ambiguous--not to John--but to the reader because John write 3:14 prior to the 4th century Christological controversies. So he was not aware of debates aboiut Christ as God versus Christ as creature. Lupieri appears to think the simple appearance of arche might not tell us whether Christ is God or creature, but the term suggests preexistence (in this case) either way. That is how I understand Lupieri.

Duncan said...

Context - Rev 3:21. It becomes quite clear.

Duncan said...

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=5E6oDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT70&lpg=PT70&dq=rev+3:21+3:14+1:5+ruler+of+new+creation&source=bl&ots=sdzyOrA4LP&sig=ACfU3U0zK2nktUZMexVfn_1ltXygK-RxPw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiRp6m7_ZnlAhXDoFwKHfenA7QQ6AEwCXoECAQQAQ#v=onepage&q=rev%203%3A21%203%3A14%201%3A5%20ruler%20of%20new%20creation&f=false

Edgar Foster said...

Duncan, I've got to run, and it's not my intent to be argumentative, but I don't believe Rev. 3:21 settles the meaning of arche in 3:14. Granted, context is a good indicator of what a word might denote. However, it hardly ever settles the issue where lexical semantics is involved. Not everyone even reads contexts the same way.

Duncan said...

https://youtu.be/UUt7u_myU7o