Thanks, Duncan. The article was interesting to read and it was informative, but I did not see the writer address the point made by Fox or Dietrich and Loretz 1976. Either the Hebrew is based on an Ugaritic cognate or its not. Fox rejects what NET and others have concluded. In any event, I posted his commentary in response to our "overlay" discussion.
Notice also what Hebrew scholar Bruce Waltke writes about Prov 26:23: http://www.etsjets.org/files/JETS-PDFs/32/32-1/32-1-pp017-026_JETS.pdf
If I am not mistaken, the verb in Song 5:14 is different from the others. It is H5968. Additionally, I still don't see a mirror connection, and when researching this subject--I ran across a verse in Exod 27:2; 2 Chron 4:9. See Exod 38:6; 2 Chron 3:6.
I do not claim to endorse Waltke's views 100%, but it is understandable that translators have to sometimes give it their best shot, transliterate or something because lexical uncertainties exist, especially in the Tanakh. Plus we have that whole qere/kethiv issue, but the main reason I pointed to Waltke was based on his comments respecting Prov 26:23.
All three terms including H5968 are used for "overlay" & there is no connection for a mirror - but that is the point. Overlay with good gold is not the same as overlay with pure gold. There are differences in meaning.
The other verses mention overlaying with bronze/copper and it is the same verb that's used for overlaying with pure gold. I see a spiritual meaning in the use of all the pure gold rather than any suggestion of building reflectors. For instance, compare Ps. 19:9-10; 21:; 119:127.
Exodus 30:3 demonstrates it quite well. The question is what signified spiritual in the first place. An idea or something tangible? Since the Hebrew language is more concrete I opt for something visible to the eye at the time.
Spiritual can mean numerous things, and it's semantic development has been long and arduous. But spiritual could possibly mean God-oriented or something that pertains to God. Spiritual things are transcendent, pointing beyond themselves. Jesus said the temple is more important than the gold. The 24 elders wear gold crowns and angels don gold sashes in revelation 15.
18 comments:
See https://www.messie2vie.fr/bible/strongs/strong-hebrew-H6823-tsaphah-page-2.html#concordance
https://rickwadholmjr.wordpress.com/2014/02/23/silver-dross-or-like-a-glaze/
Thanks, Duncan. The article was interesting to read and it was informative, but I did not see the writer address the point made by Fox or Dietrich and Loretz 1976. Either the Hebrew is based on an Ugaritic cognate or its not. Fox rejects what NET and others have concluded. In any event, I posted his commentary in response to our "overlay" discussion.
Notice also what Hebrew scholar Bruce Waltke writes about Prov 26:23: http://www.etsjets.org/files/JETS-PDFs/32/32-1/32-1-pp017-026_JETS.pdf
Another important article on this subject was composed by Dressler, "The Lesson of Proverbs 26:23"
"In Ascribe to the Lord; ed by L. Eslinger and G. Taylor (1988) 117-125." - Is this in German?
"32-1-pp017-026_JETS.pdf" is not a searchable PDF. Which page starts the relevant section?
For expediency, see strongs numbers:- H6822, H6823, H2645, H5968.
Compare 2CH 9:17 with 2CH 3:8. Also Son 5:14.
Not sure about the last statement in principle 8 as different translators can come to very different "best guesses".
The book "Ascribe to the Lord" has essays in multiple languages, including German and English. On the pdf, see page 7.
If I am not mistaken, the verb in Song 5:14 is different from the others. It is H5968. Additionally, I still don't see a mirror connection, and when researching this subject--I ran across a verse in Exod 27:2; 2 Chron 4:9. See Exod 38:6; 2 Chron 3:6.
I do not claim to endorse Waltke's views 100%, but it is understandable that translators have to sometimes give it their best shot, transliterate or something because lexical uncertainties exist, especially in the Tanakh. Plus we have that whole qere/kethiv issue, but the main reason I pointed to Waltke was based on his comments respecting Prov 26:23.
All three terms including H5968 are used for "overlay" & there is no connection for a mirror - but that is the point. Overlay with good gold is not the same as overlay with pure gold. There are differences in meaning.
The other verses mention overlaying with bronze/copper and it is the same verb that's used for overlaying with pure gold. I see a spiritual meaning in the use of all the pure gold rather than any suggestion of building reflectors. For instance, compare Ps. 19:9-10; 21:; 119:127.
Note exodus 25:13,18 in contrast with 17.
Exodus 30:3 demonstrates it quite well. The question is what signified spiritual in the first place. An idea or something tangible? Since the Hebrew language is more concrete I opt for something visible to the eye at the time.
Spiritual can mean numerous things, and it's semantic development has been long and arduous. But spiritual could possibly mean God-oriented or something that pertains to God. Spiritual things are transcendent, pointing beyond themselves. Jesus said the temple is more important than the gold. The 24 elders wear gold crowns and angels don gold sashes in revelation 15.
See also 1 Ki 10:21.
Also 1 Ki 6 is very informative regard gold & pure gold.
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